Mübeccel Banu Durukan, Ph. D., Visiting Professor: “Slovenia is still in a transition”
“Slovenia is still in a transition. You are still feeling some benefits from where you are coming from, but at the same time you are starting feeling the disadvantages of where you are going to.”
How would you compare Slovenian school system to Turkish? As we know you work here and in Izmir? You also studied in the States. Could the three education systems be in any way compared?
It is actually one of the most frequently asked questions since I came in Slovenia. The system is different. In Turkey not everybody from high school goes directly to collage. We have entrance exams and only top 2 or 3 percent of students continue education on a higher level. The groups are smaller; at least at my faculty in other parts of Turkey the classes can be larger. So when I came here it was the first time for me to teach with the microphone; I was used to groups of 40, 50 students top. But it was a good experience nonetheless. At present time I have an elective class at home with only thirteen students, everything is easier more interactive. With larger groups everything gets harder.
When comparing Slovenian and Turkish students I think Slovenian students are more outgoing, it feels like they’re asking more questions. It’s maybe because they feel the competition is harder because they are in a bigger class. My experience here is that the students come to me more often, e-mail me more often. Also the way they look at things is different, because Slovenia being so small and being a part of a greater European union, you have more extraverted view. You are comparing countries, simply because you will have to compete on a bigger market. In Turkey is different, we have harsh competition, but it is more domestic in nature, since we have larger domestic market. So we have the luxury to stay focus just on Turkey. Here it seems you want to know and learn more and put more effort in what you are doing. Other than that the differences are not so big between the students.
Do they pay tuition?
They pay tuition but it is rather small, most is subsidize by the government. The courses in English are much more expensive; the students have to pay double the amount. Of course there are also private universities where they pay higher tuitions. But in private schools we have two types of students: the ones that get scholarships with very good grades and the ones with money but at much lower level. So the private and public faculties are thus pretty much the same success wise.
Has the problem with larger classes got anything to do with our school system, which is still very much “socialistic”? Big government, no distinction between rights and privileges etc.
Slovenia is still in a transition. You are still feeling some benefits from where you are coming from, but at the same time you are starting feeling the disadvantages of where you are going to.
Certain things are good from my point of view, maternity leave and public schools etc. Things aren’t perfect in Turkey, but then again the same can be said for Slovenia. Certain rights in Slovenia would be considered as privileges in Turkey and also in other countries. So changes especially in light of the crisis will be needed.
But then again: Is this the way as it should be? Because then people are turned into machines. That can lead to other problems like social unrest.
You got your master’s degree in the States. What impact did that experience had on you?
I was a part of a school system only at an MBA level. I was a part of a larger international group and it was the first time that I was exposed to so many different cultures. The experience did change my point of view. I also tutored my colleges and I noticed that for instance students from the US can’t do without the calculator, whereas students from much less developed countries can. So the approach to learning process is different, of course this doesn’t mean that particular approach is superior to the other. But on the other hand when we look at Bill Gates who did just fine without any proper education we can see that the schools certainly aren’t the only important thing on ones path to success.
Would you say European social capitalism is better or is the American way superior? What can we (Slovenians/Turks) learn from them? What can they learn from us?
Freedom of speech. On all levels. I think this is what we all lack. Especially in Turkey. But then again they heave affirmative action which is basically discrimination in its own right. So things aren’t perfect there as well. But the systems still gives an individual the freedom to do what he or she wants. That is why I think there are still so many people trying to get to the Sates. There are many Nobel Prize winners who come from different countries, but were educated in the States.
How do you as a woman perceive working environment in Slovenia and in Turkey?
Well the funny thing actually is that where I’m coming from the majority of the professors are women. Actually 80% of the academics are women, which is exceptional. In other Turkish universities the percentage is much lower. So when I came here it was noticeable that this faculty is male dominated. Percentage of women working in Slovenia is still much higher, in Turkey there is only one quarter of women working. This is of course not good.
I am not part of any administrative work or politics; I was/am here only to teach. But I did notice that people overall in Slovenia like to discuss politics and what’s going on at home and in the world. Such debates don’t take place in Turkey. There are professors more involved with administration. There’s a lot of “cliques” among the staff. So yes, there are academic debates, but not as many and on such level as in Slovenia. So it was a nice thing for me to experience when I got here. Maybe this has something to do with the size of Slovenia – because Turkey is so big the main subject we discuss is the Turkey itself. Coming here really gave me a different perspective, what it is like to be a small country and how you perceive things.
You worked here before. Then you returned to Turkey and now you teach here only part time. Were the reasons only personal or was the part of the reason also the deteriorating economic circumstances in the EU and especially in Slovenia?
No it didn’t have anything to do with Slovenia. I came here as a guest professor for one year. Actually I had a sabbatical at my university, so I was still a professor there. Then I expanded it for one more year which was my right. But then I had to go back. At the end everything turned out nicely because I could stay here as a part time professor and still remaining a professor in Izmir.
What is your take on the current economic situation in Slovenia? Where are the main problems that we lag behind the rest of the Europe?
Certainly some social rights and privileges can no longer be sustainable. And Slovenia is a small country with small domestic market, which can much easier be affected by turmoil in foreign markets. Slovenia has also given up some of its sovereignty and has to follow the policies that are dictated by the EU. It cannot just print more money for instance. Turkey on the other hand has a big internal market with its own currency. So in certain aspects Turkey is actually better off than Slovenia. But then again the most important trade partner of Turkey is the EU (more than 50%) and we have a huge current account deficit, so recession in the EU can mean a big problem for us. Thus the current government is trying to diversify the exports and is looking at Russia and the Middle Eastern countries as potential partners.
Could you notice the ever more obvious division in the Slovenian nation? On one hand old, very much still communist thinking, and on the other hand progressively more and more liberal thinking (in economic sense)?
Well I noticed that younger people are becoming more and more comformistic and this leads in to ever greater individualism, which can lead to bad things especially in this times when people should work together.
You know the expression “neoliberalism”. In Slovenia it has a negative connotation especially because of the unions, which use it to describe everything they think is wrong with capitalism. How do you perceive it?
It is a thought that has ruled the world. But in the long run it will have to change. It’s hard to predict where it will go, because it is so engraved in our mentality. Even at this moment we teach you this kind of thinking. On the other hand: What is the alternative? It has to start with people; people starting questioning the old ways etc. People have to have hope; otherwise everything will start crumbling down. The problem of present system is that it has based its progress on debt financing and as human beings we didn’t know where to stop.
The other day I read an article about Harvard students who walked out of the class during the lectures on Economics 101, because they felt the establishment isn’t teaching them about the alternatives to this neoliberal view of the economy.
In 2011 you wrote an article The SME financing gap in Slovenia and Turkey. The business environment in Slovenia is very rigid. Could the same be said for Turkey?
There are actually 99% of SMEs in Turkey. So there are these agencies for small and medium enterprises, which are meant as a support for these small companies. There are funds for small companies etc.
Big difference as mentioned before is the size of the market: In Turkey one can simply establish a company and live off it relatively prosperous accommodating needs of the domestic market, whereas in Slovenia the market is just too small. So it is easier for the Turkish counterparts to be successful.
Why is on the other hand Turkey so successful in the last decade (economic growth second only to China)? What did the Turkey do right? Can this only be attributed to natural resources, which Turkey is rich with?
After 2002 we have one party government and it is easier to rule that way. Plus our banking sector went through a big turmoil in 2001 and many when many banks went under. So the banking sector was much stronger as the European and the American. Although our banks are stronger one third of them are European and there is fear of recapitalization: what will happened if the EU banks recapitalize? Will they pull their capital from the Turkish banks?
Also Turkish banks are now much closely monitored and that means that the corporations are borrowing abroad. So if the currency is devaluated, what would that mean for our companies? They would certainly have problems.
Turkey also has a big current account deficit – 8% of our GDP. The government is trying to reduce it, of course that is not that easy. One advantage that Turkey has is its own currency, we could devalue Turkish Lira. We also have a great capital inflow to Turkey, but if this stops, we would have even higher current account deficit. The inflation rate is thus very high, around 8%, which is still a lot lower than even a few years ago when it was in double digits. So Turkey is sound now, but could potentially face some problems in the near future.
Does the Turkey build on industries with high added value?
The main industries in Turkey are textile industry, which encountered a big hit with this crisis. Some factories were closed down and moved to places with cheaper labor force like Bangladesh. The construction sector is also very important. But it’s also problematic, because the construction companies are actually building and giving credits to the customers at the same time. The construction sector was also hit hard by the war in Libya, where many Turkish companies did business.
That is why I’m trying to teach my students in Turkey about the importance of innovations and eterpernuarship.
In the last days we here that Turkish government has lifted some restriction concerning religion in schools; Is the legacy of Atatürk in danger? How do you as an educated woman see the future of fellow female scholars in the modern Turkey?
I’m not that comfortable with these changes. Atatürk was very much ahead of its time and was trying to change our whole country and thinking. So we the Turkish women were among first in the world to get the voting right. And maybe this is the problem: We didn’t fight for it and take it now as granted.
Problematic is also the clergy. Koran is written in Arabic and must not be translated in to other languages. So now we have these mediators who explain the “word” of God. And in turkey this clergy class is quite powerful.
Of course building on religion is very problematic, because it represents a threat to people who are secularized or with no believes. When religion is used as a political tool, then people are being divided, based on how they dress, eat etc. I think Turkey is going through a test. And at this point in time it can go in either way. But I have high hopes.
There are some prejudices about Islam and there is much xenophobia in the west. How do you see religion in the economy? What is your intake on Islamic banking? Do you think this kind of banking could offer a potential solution to ailing western concept of banking?
Well it certainly is an interesting concept – banking without interest, but I have my doubts. In Turkey we don’t have a classic Islamic banking per se, but we have banks that are trying to act like Islamic ones. So in profit-and-loss sharing mechanism, who will save these banks, if they go bust? I think they are successful, but mostly in getting money from religious people.
Something lighter to conclude the interview: What is your favorite thing in Slovenia (not work related)? And which Turkish thing do you miss the most when you are staying here?
Cycling. I loved that I could go everywhere, especially in Ljubljana, by bike. I also found interesting the idea of library under the trees. I think it’s such a lovely idea.
The sea is something I miss the most, when in Ljubljana. In Izmir the sea is near and I think it has a soothing effect.
Kristian Jerebič, efnews
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